A fair and focused stat loss idea, (with a perma stat version if staff is dead set on that)

[Messremb]

if you are just here for the idea just jump down to where i start it.

OK first off i wanna say i think perma stat is the wrong way to go, it discourages PVPers from risking their heads, and while that is good in some ways (keeping reads out of dungeons) it makes normal PVP less likely to happen.

so first lets look at the goals of stat loss. (IMO these are what we should be trying to accomplish)

• force reds to give back to the community
• keep reds killing new players, Bards, and tamers in check and having risk.
• provide the ability to blue players to keep reds away from their PVM chars (this also encourages PVP)

how does the current system line up with these goals.

• the only way the current system forces reds to give back is the bounty system, unfortunately since most reds die to other red guilds it really isn't accomplishing its goal. also it defeats some of the other purposes.
• the current system does provide risk for PKs although that risk is minimal, and with auto head buy back, amounts to about 35k total risk.
• the current system would provide the ability for blues to keep reds in check but the BO system makes that not an option.

now lets look at how perma statloss affects this

• perma stat definitely forces reds to give back to the community.
• perma stat does increase the risk on reds but too much so, to the point where reds will be unwilling to risk their heads to provide fun PVP interactions, and will make them run in much larger groups for protection.
• it does not keep reds away from their PVM chars, as reds can simply SS up and be right back at it. but it does make the reds want to run deeper to avoid losing their heads.

conclusions i draw here are, that while perma stat does meet the goals of stat loss, it takes it to far, and only affects the poor PKs who cant afford SSs.

MY IDEA (some of this I stole from others) without Perma Stat

bring back long and short term counts ( for those who dont know long term counts only affect your red status, and decay at one every 40 hours. short term counts affect your stat loss and decay at 1 every 8 hours)

Make it so short term counts can only be given in dungeons and designated PVM\champ areas.

leave in the bounty system but add in an option to view the murders short term counts, also remove the cap on bounty price, and make auto buy back based on short term counts as well.

when a red gets stated it will be 2 hours game time for every short term count. capped at say 48 hours, this time will decay if they are on that char, or a blue char on that account, but will not decay if they are logged out of that account, or on another red.

being stated removes all short term counts.

if a red buys out his head he is still unable to enter dungeons for 2 hours? (some amount of reasonable time)

kills in the over world give only long term counts, and so if you only PK in the over world you can not be stated.


what this accomplishes IMO is it punishes dungeon PK while not making them log out if they run out of reds. it also allows over world red vs blue PVP still viable and with no punishment unless you were dungeon PKing. it also makes it a chalange to be the red PK with a significant amount of short term counts, imagine being able to brag about having 1000 short term counts, i would have some serious respect for that PK.

how does this match up to my goals

it allows reds to give back to the community through gold BO, or through PVM\whatever else they want to do on blue chars.

it provides risk to the right kind of reds, and a risk that is not so harsh they quit, or feel the need to run 20 deep.

it provides a way for blues to keep reds away from their PVM chars, and encourages reds to stay in the over world where they can find fights with no risk.

added bonus, 40 hour long term counts means less blue griefrs.

Idea with perma stat loss

ok if you have your heart set on perma stat loss here is how i think it should be done so it doesn't kill all PVP.

once again bring back long and short counts,

only dungeons and select PVM areas can short term counts be given.

stat loss should be based on total short term counts, max being 10% if you have say 50 or 100 short term counts.

its a less harsh version of perma stat that only affects dungeon PKs. it lets over world PVP still happen.

I dont like this Idea but its better than just adding in perma stat.


@Shane @Adam @UOFcommunity

thoughts on this?

lets keep it on track

 

[K A Z]

if you are just here for the idea just jump down to where i start it.

OK first off i wanna say i think perma stat is the wrong way to go, it discourages PVPers from risking their heads, and while that is good in some ways (keeping reads out of dungeons) it makes normal PVP less likely to happen.

so first lets look at the goals of stat loss. (IMO these are what we should be trying to accomplish)

• force reds to give back to the community
• keep reds killing new players, Bards, and tamers in check and having risk.
• provide the ability to blue players to keep reds away from their PVM chars (this also encourages PVP)

how does the current system line up with these goals.

• the only way the current system forces reds to give back is the bounty system, unfortunately since most reds die to other red guilds it really isn't accomplishing its goal. also it defeats some of the other purposes.
• the current system does provide risk for PKs although that risk is minimal, and with auto head buy back, amounts to about 35k total risk.
• the current system would provide the ability for blues to keep reds in check but the BO system makes that not an option.

now lets look at how perma statloss affects this

• perma stat definitely forces reds to give back to the community.
• perma stat does increase the risk on reds but too much so, to the point where reds will be unwilling to risk their heads to provide fun PVP interactions, and will make them run in much larger groups for protection.
• it does not keep reds away from their PVM chars, as reds can simply SS up and be right back at it. but it does make the reds want to run deeper to avoid losing their heads.

conclusions i draw here are, that while perma stat does meet the goals of stat loss, it takes it to far, and only affects the poor PKs who cant afford SSs.

MY IDEA (some of this I stole from others) without Perma Stat

bring back long and short term counts ( for those who dont know long term counts only affect your red status, and decay at one every 40 hours. short term counts affect your stat loss and decay at 1 every 8 hours)

Make it so short term counts can only be given in dungeons and designated PVM\champ areas.

leave in the bounty system but add in an option to view the murders short term counts, also remove the cap on bounty price, and make auto buy back based on short term counts as well.

when a red gets stated it will be 2 hours game time for every short term count. capped at say 48 hours, this time will decay if they are on that char, or a blue char on that account, but will not decay if they are logged out of that account, or on another red.

being stated removes all short term counts.

if a red buys out his head he is still unable to enter dungeons for 2 hours? (some amount of reasonable time)

kills in the over world give only long term counts, and so if you only PK in the over world you can not be stated.


what this accomplishes IMO is it punishes dungeon PK while not making them log out if they run out of reds. it also allows over world red vs blue PVP still viable and with no punishment unless you were dungeon PKing. it also makes it a chalange to be the red PK with a significant amount of short term counts, imagine being able to brag about having 1000 short term counts, i would have some serious respect for that PK.

how does this match up to my goals

it allows reds to give back to the community through gold BO, or through PVM\whatever else they want to do on blue chars.

it provides risk to the right kind of reds, and a risk that is not so harsh they quit, or feel the need to run 20 deep.

it provides a way for blues to keep reds away from their PVM chars, and encourages reds to stay in the over world where they can find fights with no risk.

added bonus, 40 hour long term counts means less blue griefrs.

Idea with perma stat loss

ok if you have your heart set on perma stat loss here is how i think it should be done so it doesn't kill all PVP.

once again bring back long and short counts,

only dungeons and select PVM areas can short term counts be given.

stat loss should be based on total short term counts, max being 10% if you have say 50 or 100 short term counts.

its a less harsh version of perma stat that only affects dungeon PKs. it lets over world PVP still happen.

I dont like this Idea but its better than just adding in perma stat.


@Shane @Adam @UOFcommunity

thoughts on this?

lets keep it on track

pretty good imo

 

[Deadpool]

lets keep it on track

I agree.

 

[Messremb]

pretty good imo

i think it was you that i got the whole no over world short term counts idea from.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

TLDR - im a non faction, non pk, non pvp player that wants to discuss pvp systems.

i havent done a bod in my life, but let me weigh in on bod discussions and how they should be changed.

k?

 

[K A Z]

i think it was you that i got the whole no over world short term counts idea from.

yea its how it worked on defiance

 

[Messremb]

TLDR - im a non faction, non pk, non pvp player that wants to discuss pvp systems.

i havent done a bod in my life, but let me weigh in on bod discussions and how they should be changed.

k?

this is a suggestion thread, and i would like to keep it that way, if you want to read the suggestion and weigh in please do. if you just want to shit talk and pretend like you know all my chars and what i do with them start a thread in PVP and i will be right over to talk some shit.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

heres my counter suggestion to your suggestion. you dont 'pvp' in the real sense of the word.

if you want to learn about pvp, i suggest you join a pvp team, not the guild youre currently in. if you have any questions or are looking for guidance in pvp, people like me are here to help.

the problem with pvp and pk statloss is people like you conjure up disgustingly long posts offering advice to staff on how things should be, even though you have 0 experience or knowledge in the subject.

the server as a whole has a ******** amount of people speaking on subjects they know little or nothing about - and were all forced to deal with the consequences (i.e shane making a poor change to quell you and your team of equally inexperienced pvpers.)

YOU AINT GOT THE ANSWERS, SWAY

 

[Messremb]

heres my counter suggestion to your suggestion. you dont 'pvp' in the real sense of the word.

if you want to learn about pvp, i suggest you join a pvp team, not the guild youre currently in. if you have any questions or are looking for guidance in pvp, people like me are here to help.

the problem with pvp and pk statloss is people like you conjure up disgustingly long posts offering advice to staff on how things should be, even though you have 0 experience or knowledge in the subject.

the server as a whole has a ******** amount of people speaking on subjects they know little or nothing about - and were all forced to deal with the consequences (i.e shane making a poor change to quell you and your team of equally inexperienced pvpers.)

YOU AINT GOT THE ANSWERS, SWAY

the fact that you think i dont PVP proves you know nothing about me. i may not run in the largest zerg around, but i have 8 PVP chars and currently 3 reds (would be 4 but i factioned one of them and made him blue again).

one could argue that your knowledge of PVP is only in Tamer PVP and Zerg, and you only play blues so your right to weigh in on this subject is revoked. if you cant look past a petty grudge to see if my post has any merit than you are the last person this shard needs making any suggestions to staff,

its your guild leader that got us in this shitty position anyways with his endless demands on staff. maybe tell him to stfu and leave staff alone and we wont have to worry about them putting in perma statloss.

now kindly STFU or start a thread somewhere else.

@eppy @halygon please remove LHR and my responses to him from this thread, as they are trolling and have nothing to do with the idea.

Thanks,

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

staff please remove messremb from the forums so he cant comment on things he knows nothing about.

i dont fish, so i dont talk about fishing. i dont do bods, so i dont talk about bods. i dont kill skeletons for a living, so i dont comment on their loot tables.

but if you think you are going to comment on pvp while im around, you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[bane]

Only thing I would add is have killing blue pets add a long term count. This way blue griefers would at the very least be openly attackable at some point. I see blue griefers as the larger problem anyway.

Oh forgot to add I am in favor of the temporary statloss for reds part of Mess's post and I have no red characters. Not all of us trammies want PKs off the shard. Just remember we need constructive solutions not threats and bluster.

 

[Messremb]

staff please remove messremb from the forums so he cant comment on things he knows nothing about.

i dont fish, so i dont talk about fishing. i dont do bods, so i dont talk about bods. i dont kill skeletons for a living, so i dont comment on their loot tables.

but if you think you are going to comment on pvp while im around, you are in for a rude awakening.

how do you know i don't PVP? do you know all my chars, just cause i dont solo at the no cut any more (the only place you will ever be found) does not mean i don't pvp. i love your assumptions though.

please keep telling us how stat loss should be while you play your blue tamer at the no cut zone.

 

[GluttonySDS]

Only thing I would add is have killing blue pets add a long term count. This way blue griefers would at the very least be openly attackable at some point. I see blue griefers as the larger problem anyway.

 

[Deadpool]

Can you guys just kiss already? Sheesh! The suspense is killing me!!

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

i could play a miner archer and bank sit naked i still have 100000x the knowledge of pvp, pking, factioning, everything than you.

 

[GluttonySDS]

its your guild leader that got us in this shitty position anyways with his endless demands on staff. maybe tell him to stfu and leave staff alone and we wont have to worry about them putting in perma statloss.


Thanks,

This is my fault? What demands have I asked of staff? To improve PVP mechanics so its not garbage like it was 6 months ago where 3 explode/ebs wouldnt kill someone?

Heres some harsh facts for you @Messremb:

-You dont PVP
-Youre a blue who is in one of the largest alliances in the game
-Your alliance regularly fields more than EQMS does(the fact that youre made up of newbs doesnt change this, so is EQMS)

So while you cry about zergs, and red ganks, you are in a zerg alliance that PKs... EQMS only PKs because no one has the balls to PVP us in the no cut or faction fighting so we are forced to goto dungeons to find PVP.

 

[Messremb]

This is my fault? What demands have I asked of staff? To improve PVP mechanics so its not garbage like it was 6 months ago where 3 explode/ebs wouldnt kill someone?

Heres some harsh facts for you @Messremb:

-You dont PVP
-Youre a blue who is in one of the largest alliances in the game
-Your alliance regularly fields more than EQMS does(the fact that youre made up of newbs doesnt change this, so is EQMS)

So while you cry about zergs, and red ganks, you are in a zerg alliance that PKs... EQMS only PKs because no one has the balls to PVP us in the no cut or faction fighting so we are forced to goto dungeons to find PVP.

you are the one who crys for changes to Factions cause you killed them? am i wrong?


your facts are all not facts im afraid,

I do PVP
i have reds
and while we have a few times had numbers comparable to EQMS i have yet to fight EQMS with more numbers than they had.

also while i help my alliance PVP agains zergs and large groups, i do not run dungeons with them, if there is more than 4 or 5, cause i think its dumb.

the fact you claim we regularly field more than you is pretty funny, keep it up kid.

if you wanna 1v1 me and prove you are the superior pvper then bring it on.

also i see nothing in this about my idea just more attacks on me. maybe try reading it and see that it actually favors your style of PVP.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

can i 1v1 you? if i win you never speak on pvp again. if you win i quit and give you my entire estate

 

[Messremb]

can i 1v1 you? if i win you never speak on pvp again. if you win i quit and give you my entire estate

i never claimed i was the best, just better than glut. if you wanna 1v1 just for a chance to kill me that's fine, i'm not afraid to die in a 20 year old game.

you guys should really get over your egos and try reading the idea. it really does favor your type of play style.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

let pvpers discuss pvp. thats all i ask