Healer not getting count?

[Kairus]

so a pk and a blue guy murders u, u are killing murderer 1v1 but blue guy keeps healing him, becomes criminal, but u cant take 1v2 and die..

even if u dont attack blue guy at all , and he keeps assisting pk by healing, u cant give him a murder count, can this be fixed? healing a murderer should get u in murder act when he kills someone. And there are many people abusing this.

 

[ShinPi]

Suxs yes but don't fret. If a red needs a blue to heal him so he don't die than he obviously a lamo hold ya head up and know it took two cause ones a scrub. I agree with giving the healer a count as well

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[Metalhead-]

so a pk and a blue guy murders u, u are killing murderer 1v1 but blue guy keeps healing him, becomes criminal, but u cant take 1v2 and die..

even if u dont attack blue guy at all , and he keeps assisting pk by healing, u cant give him a murder count, can this be fixed? healing a murderer should get u in murder act when he kills someone. And there are many people abusing this.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g

 

[Dewderonomy]

Only in UO can you defend someone by attacking a potential rapist and not only would the police not help you, but they may send you to jail if the cosmic balance was in alignment. I still hold that most of the reason that led to Trammel had nothing to do with risk vs reward or non-consent PvP, but how ******** the flagging system rules were to where it was so piss easy being a criminal and near impossible to be a "good guy" that people were fed up with how unintuitive it all was.

 

[Lotus]

yeah love that if a blue attacks a red he turns gray thing.....thats hot

 

[Metalhead-]

Only in UO can you defend someone by attacking a potential rapist and not only would the police not help you, but they may send you to jail if the cosmic balance was in alignment. I still hold that most of the reason that led to Trammel had nothing to do with risk vs reward or non-consent PvP, but how ******** the flagging system rules were to where it was so piss easy being a criminal and near impossible to be a "good guy" that people were fed up with how unintuitive it all was.

The fix is in self governance. Those of us that played M59 saw how the players can police themselves. We didn't need flagging rules, bounty boards, or multiple forms of statloss. The players policed themselves and went after the PKs themselves. When you beg the powers that be to fix something you're not gonna fix a damn thing but create a system that we PKs will learn to get around. That is of course you still allow the game to be a sandbox world where anything was still possible. Otherwise you're playing inside a bubble and your choices of excitement are limited to what they make and set before you. Not what true sandbox playing really is. You need danger, you need to know that not everyone is out to help you or make your life easier in UO. When you find those that will help you, you'll appreciate them much more.






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[God.RG]

^ well put..
find a way to fix it yourself. the beauty of UO.

 

[Kael]

You will also find alot of the "red" players are actually players that have fixed the problem of blue griefers. On Siege Perilous people were judged for how they acted...not the color of their character

 

[Dewderonomy]

The fix is in self governance. Those of us that played M59 saw how the players can police themselves. We didn't need flagging rules, bounty boards, or multiple forms of statloss. The players policed themselves and went after the PKs themselves. When you beg the powers that be to fix something you're not gonna fix a damn thing but create a system that we PKs will learn to get around. That is of course you still allow the game to be a sandbox world where anything was still possible. Otherwise you're playing inside a bubble and your choices of excitement are limited to what they make and set before you. Not what true sandbox playing really is. You need danger, you need to know that not everyone is out to help you or make your life easier in UO. When you find those that will help you, you'll appreciate them much more.

"Self-governance" isn't a thing, at all. Not in pretty much any context ever, but especially video games. Citing the early days of massively multi-playing gaming when the internet, as a commercial enterprise, was still fresh (and pay-per-minute, no less) isn't exactly accurate. That's like saying "Well, the role-playing community of Catskills and Europa governed themselves with RoEs and community-wide policies." Sure, that's true - on a scale of about 200 people, it worked. Sort of. It was also the home of the most sinister, deceptive and vindictive group of people I've ever had the displeasure of playing with. They didn't fight you in the game; they fought you over ICQ and slandering your name until guilds blacklisted from RPing with you. But hey, at least there wasn't any looting! (PS: There was, and plenty of it - even the RP community couldn't govern itself).

Either way, my point had nothing to do with removing "danger" but clarifying what flagging means. So many people come to play this game and none of it makes sense, regardless of "self-governance":

"I attacked that murderer, had to run, and the guards didn't come help me."
"Yep."
"Why?"
"'Cause you attacked him."
"But he was a murderer."
"Yep."
"So the guards do nothing against criminals, murderers and known thieves?"
"Sometimes."
"But not if I attack someone who's in the process of committing a crime?"
"Yep."
"Then who are they guarding?"
"Good fuckin' question."

None of that makes sense, and that conversation right there I've had with about 25-30 players on this server since I started playing - veterans (wondering about reds in town) and newbies (trying to make sense of aggression flag rules) alike - to mention nothing of this topic coming up endlessly since I was 12 back in the day. Some of these people stopped playing. It wasn't that they lost anything; UO is a game like any other. We like to put it on a high horse, but we're just lying to ourselves. UO is just another game with little to no consequence for actions. You lose stuff? You can blind loot me back to back for an hour and I might start getting concerned that I'm running out of high end gear - and I carry no less than 4 melee weapons and 2 archery weapons at all times. That's a lot of stuff to lose and care absolutely nothing about.

Bogus and exploitable flagging, inconsequential notoriety, incentiveless self-policing, meaningless PvP - that's the reality of UO. Everything else is rose-shaded glasses. We enjoy condemning people as Trammies and "weak" because the few people who are messed up enough to understand this broken game can use it to our advantage (yes, I'm one of them) while others lose time and time again over technicalities more so than player skill (if that's even a thing on UO anymore).

Adjusting flagging is possible; I've played servers with fixed flagging rules which were fantastic. Unfortunately, it's really hard to beat people when the game mechanics make sense, and you're on an even playing field. Most UOers nowadays tend to frown on such things when waiting for the stun isn't the "end-all, be-all" of player interaction.

^ well put..
find a way to fix it yourself. the beauty of UO.

People do. When they realize the "fix" is to play someone else's game (the PKers' game, that is) instead of their own, they don't look back when they log off for good. Reds are losing consequences more and more; they're adding incentives to go hunt PKers, but that assumes people want to PvP for rewards instead of justice.

Factions don't have rewards, and we see a bunch of them running around, right? PvP for the sake of PvP? Yeah, right. Red vs. Blue is just becoming the new factions. That's NOT what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be some form of justice against the unjust, the evil, the wicked, criminal elements, whatever. The "reward" is justice - penalizing the evil-doers in some way that is comparable to what reds do to the innocent (ie, taking them out of the game through statloss, jail, anything for that matter). Most people who hunt reds, who anti-PK, don't do it because of any potential "reward". They do it for the satisfaction of bringing a d-bag down to his knees and statting his ass, knowing that red was likely some AFK farmer or bard killer. But anyone who's played UO for more than 6 months knows the cycle; the anti-PKers start taking counts against a few bluebies, or maybe some jerk they don't like, and boom, they go red. Then the rationalization starts, and before you know it, the anti-PKers are now just PKers.

Which brings me to...

You will also find alot of the "red" players are actually players that have fixed the problem of blue griefers. On Siege Perilous people were judged for how they acted...not the color of their character

Not here. There aren't that many blue griefers on UOF to where any statistically significant portion of reds are red solely because they're killing blue griefers and notos.

 

[Drakken Payne]

"Self-governance" isn't a thing, at all. Not in pretty much any context ever, but especially video games. Citing the early days of massively multi-playing gaming when the internet, as a commercial enterprise, was still fresh (and pay-per-minute, no less) isn't exactly accurate. That's like saying "Well, the role-playing community of Catskills and Europa governed themselves with RoEs and community-wide policies." Sure, that's true - on a scale of about 200 people, it worked. Sort of. It was also the home of the most sinister, deceptive and vindictive group of people I've ever had the displeasure of playing with. They didn't fight you in the game; they fought you over ICQ and slandering your name until guilds blacklisted from RPing with you. But hey, at least there wasn't any looting! (PS: There was, and plenty of it - even the RP community couldn't govern itself).

Either way, my point had nothing to do with removing "danger" but clarifying what flagging means. So many people come to play this game and none of it makes sense, regardless of "self-governance":

"I attacked that murderer, had to run, and the guards didn't come help me."
"Yep."
"Why?"
"'Cause you attacked him."
"But he was a murderer."
"Yep."
"So the guards do nothing against criminals, murderers and known thieves?"
"Sometimes."
"But not if I attack someone who's in the process of committing a crime?"
"Yep."
"Then who are they guarding?"
"Good fuckin' question."

None of that makes sense, and that conversation right there I've had with about 25-30 players on this server since I started playing - veterans (wondering about reds in town) and newbies (trying to make sense of aggression flag rules) alike - to mention nothing of this topic coming up endlessly since I was 12 back in the day. Some of these people stopped playing. It wasn't that they lost anything; UO is a game like any other. We like to put it on a high horse, but we're just lying to ourselves. UO is just another game with little to no consequence for actions. You lose stuff? You can blind loot me back to back for an hour and I might start getting concerned that I'm running out of high end gear - and I carry no less than 4 melee weapons and 2 archery weapons at all times. That's a lot of stuff to lose and care absolutely nothing about.

Bogus and exploitable flagging, inconsequential notoriety, incentiveless self-policing, meaningless PvP - that's the reality of UO. Everything else is rose-shaded glasses. We enjoy condemning people as Trammies and "weak" because the few people who are messed up enough to understand this broken game can use it to our advantage (yes, I'm one of them) while others lose time and time again over technicalities more so than player skill (if that's even a thing on UO anymore).

Adjusting flagging is possible; I've played servers with fixed flagging rules which were fantastic. Unfortunately, it's really hard to beat people when the game mechanics make sense, and you're on an even playing field. Most UOers nowadays tend to frown on such things when waiting for the stun isn't the "end-all, be-all" of player interaction.


People do. When they realize the "fix" is to play someone else's game (the PKers' game, that is) instead of their own, they don't look back when they log off for good. Reds are losing consequences more and more; they're adding incentives to go hunt PKers, but that assumes people want to PvP for rewards instead of justice.

Factions don't have rewards, and we see a bunch of them running around, right? PvP for the sake of PvP? Yeah, right. Red vs. Blue is just becoming the new factions. That's NOT what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be some form of justice against the unjust, the evil, the wicked, criminal elements, whatever. The "reward" is justice - penalizing the evil-doers in some way that is comparable to what reds do to the innocent (ie, taking them out of the game through statloss, jail, anything for that matter). Most people who hunt reds, who anti-PK, don't do it because of any potential "reward". They do it for the satisfaction of bringing a d-bag down to his knees and statting his ass, knowing that red was likely some AFK farmer or bard killer. But anyone who's played UO for more than 6 months knows the cycle; the anti-PKers start taking counts against a few bluebies, or maybe some jerk they don't like, and boom, they go red. Then the rationalization starts, and before you know it, the anti-PKers are now just PKers.

Which brings me to...

Not here. There aren't that many blue griefers on UOF to where any statistically significant portion of reds are red solely because they're killing blue griefers and notos.

Because it bears quoting.

 

[Metalhead-]

I don't have the energy to reply seriously anymore to this thread. I'll be back tomorrow to scold you all!


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