Fix Explosion Pots

[wetbreasts]

I have only been playing this shard for about a week, and already i am bored of the sea of explosion pot script kiddies.

Something needs to be done about how easy it is to script explosion pots. It only took me about 5 minutes and a couple explosion pots to see how badly this system can be abused.
1. There is a static ~1 second delay between throwing (clicking their bar) and exploding. The pot doesnt actually travel; that is just an animation. It disappears from your backpack and then explodes on the tile clicked ~1 second later.
2. The alternating 4 or 3 second count-down as a countermeasure to scripting is useless due to journal scanning.

All they have to do is click the pot, get the countdown timer, add 1 second to it (because if you actually time it, it takes 1 second + 3-4 seconds to explode after clicking), then have the script wait until about 200ms before the last second and throw, and it will hit every time, running or not. I don't even need to test this or make a script to prove it because there is no time of flight.

From what i can tell, scripting is illegal on this shard, which is a good thing. However since you cant actually enforce this to any real effect, i think explosion pots should be changed in such a way that scripts end up having the same or close reliability as humans. One possible suggestion for this is to add time of flight to the explosion pots, say 50-100ms per tile.

The best solution is obviously to nerf them to the ground, as most other shards do, because everyone knows that explosion pots just encourage script vs script pvp.

 

[Drake Roberts]

One possible suggestion for this is to add time of flight to the explosion pots, say 50-100ms per tile.

The best solution is obviously to nerf them to the ground, as most other shards do, because everyone knows that explosion pots just encourage script vs script pvp.

Only problem is that these scripts can be extremely sophisticated and could simply be modified to have range checks put in, that would adjust for the distance of tiles you are from your target and the time it would take to travel that distance.. After taking a look at the automated stealing script people are using, I really don't think the time of flight would fix anything.. Very discouraging shit.. and I honestly don't even see the point of playing if you are going to be using cheat scripts like this. It takes absolutely no skill.

Nerfing the Alchey mages and Thieves completely to the ground isn't fair to the people who are playing these classes legitimately. I'd rather see the third party programs that are capable of such long and sophisticated scripts, to be rebanned rather than see these classes completely fucked to where they are no longer playable options.

On the bright side... Shane and the rest of the staff have already come out and said they are all over this shit and are taking care of it ASAP.

 

[wetbreasts]

The problem is 95% of top tier players will use scripts like this because it ensures the highest chance of success. You're right that nothing truly can be done about exp pots, but due to ping and ping flux, scripts could never truly compensate for time of flight. I guess the problem is it would be equally hard for legit players to compensate as well. Perhaps then the most effective solution is to just remove the "heat seeking" component, so they can only travel in straight lines. This would at least give you some way to defend from the otherwise unavoidable exp pots.

 

[TheGooch]

Only problem is that these scripts can be extremely sophisticated and could simply be modified to have range checks put in, that would adjust for the distance of tiles you are from your target and the time it would take to travel that distance.. After taking a look at the automated stealing script people are using, I really don't think the time of flight would fix anything.. Very discouraging shit.. and I honestly don't even see the point of playing if you are going to be using cheat scripts like this. It takes absolutely no skill.

Nerfing the Alchey mages and Thieves completely to the ground isn't fair to the people who are playing these classes legitimately. I'd rather see the third party programs that are capable of such long and sophisticated scripts, to be rebanned rather than see these classes completely fucked to where they are no longer playable options.

+1
With all the issues arising recently I would also agree that rebanning uos seems the way to go.

 

[Drake Roberts]

The problem is 95% of top tier players will use scripts like this because it ensures the highest chance of success. You're right that nothing truly can be done about exp pots, but due to ping and ping flux, scripts could never truly compensate for time of flight. I guess the problem is it would be equally hard for legit players to compensate as well. Perhaps then the most effective solution is to just remove the "heat seeking" component, so they can only travel in straight lines. This would at least give you some way to defend from the otherwise unavoidable exp pots.

Yeah.. these are both problems (automated stealing, automated exp pots) that are going to be really tough to deal with without throwing out the third party program that is being used to do it.. or without completely fucking up these classes... and like I said.. after seeing for myself just how sophisticated these scripts can be in the case of the automated stealing script, I am sure this is just the half of it.. The scripts look like something straight out of easy uo.

 

[wetbreasts]

Yeah and that is the issue i have. Even if you ban UOSteam, all of this can still be done with easyuo. Since you can't stop people from using easyuo, i think the most effective course of action is to design the mechanics in such a way that using these scripts provides no significant advantage. Still, that's easier said than done.

 

[Drake Roberts]

Yeah and that is the issue i have. Even if you ban UOSteam, all of this can still be done with easyuo. Since you can't stop people from using easyuo, i think the most effective course of action is to design the mechanics in such a way that using these scripts provides no significant advantage. Still, that's easier said than done.

Well if they implemented that punk buster like program they suggested in the past, which would basically ensure that everyone who logs into the server isn't using any unauthorized third party programs or speed hacks.. that would solve everything.. without having to make game breaking changes

 

[Malkraven]

Well if they implemented that punk buster like program they suggested in the past, which would basically ensure that everyone who logs into the server isn't using any unauthorized third party programs or speed hacks.. that would solve everything.. without having to make game breaking changes

i think the problem with this is some people wont trust the UOF team to install programs on to there computers for obvious security reasons. Personally i trust them and still play but would the UOF population take a hit? yea i think it probably would....

 

[High Plains Drifter]

It's hard to accuse someone of scripting just bc they hit every potion.

People have been playing this game everyday for 15 years...

Have any other proof besides you thinking people are playing the game too well?

 

[Malkraven]

It's hard to accuse someone of scripting just bc they hit every potion.

People have been playing this game everyday for 15 years...

Have any other proof besides you thinking people are playing the game too well?

and half of em have been cheating for last 14 yrs

 

[RaRae]

Barely read the OP post but I will already tell you if your any good at PvP you most likely DO NOT use a macro. Using a macro puts you in so many disadvantages I can't even describe how bad it is for you.

First, throwing away your pot in order to save yo ass doesn't go well when your automatically targeting your last target.

Second, using a macro that targets can and will sometimes fuck up your spell targeting.

Also I'd like to point that an automatic pot macro can easily be made on razor and making a pot macro is less than complicated on razor or UOS.

The fact of the matter is IDC if you use a macro or not because if you use one you suck at the game and it will be no problem killing you.

Have a good day.

 

[Sarphus]

I agree, this is a very abuseable game mechanic and needs to be fixed. It reduces the typical pvp nox fencer build into a click n' stick script. That's not skill-based.

 

[RaRae]

A dexer isn't skill based anyways point invalid. Sorry to tell you guys UO in general is a abusable game the games 17 years old and is pretty much a sandbox, if you truly want a legit game get rid of razor and UOS and let's play through UO paper doll hotkeys.

 

[Drake Roberts]

Barely read the OP post but I will already tell you if your any good at PvP you most likely DO NOT use a macro. Using a macro puts you in so many disadvantages I can't even describe how bad it is for you.

First, throwing away your pot in order to save yo ass doesn't go well when your automatically targeting your last target.

Second, using a macro that targets can and will sometimes fuck up your spell targeting.

Also I'd like to point that an automatic pot macro can easily be made on razor and making a pot macro is less than complicated on razor or UOS.

The fact of the matter is IDC if you use a macro or not because if you use one you suck at the game and it will be no problem killing you.

Have a good day.

It can possibly put you at a disadvantage (if you are a top tier pvper) in SOME circumstances, but let's get real.. Scripts are out there and being used and they make mediocre/terrible players much much better than they are without these scripts.

I personally give less a shit about these exp pot scripts, because if you're str'd up and stocked up, you can typically survive a exp pot mana dump spam, and they typically run out of exp pots really quick.. What I am much more concerned about, is the 1 button automated snoop/search/steal by item type scripts that are being used by people.. and now even by people afk.. SUCCESSFULLY. Stealing PS's afk..

Now if steam is capable of doing that with stealing, with a 67 line script.. Then I can only imagine wtf else it can do.. There is a serious problem there.

But you are right about one thing.. People who use those scripts are fucking gimps.. and they are going to get that crutch removed here soon.

As for removing all third party programs including razor.. I say fuck it. In Lor mother fuckers. The razor macro abilities are not very much better than paper doll macros any ways (with the things that have been disabled for this server on it). I wouldn't be changing much


Edit: and I just read your comment about Razor being able to make the same 1 button exp pot macro attached to macros for when you cast explosion spell, so you don't have to cancel target cast the next spell, reload the exp pot and then throw the mother fucker, I call BS. If you are trying to put Razor on par with Steam, you are either completely ignorant to steams capabilities or you are just being an idiot. You can't make 67 line automated Scripts like the kind that are on steam, with razor. You can't make anything remotely close to how fucking automated and sophisticated these scripts are, on razor.

 

[RaRae]

Here's an idea remove the command line for using stealing on UOS....

Boom.

 

[wetbreasts]

I definitely agree that using scripts in pvp for the most part will get you killed at high level, however there is really nothing about these exp pots that requires skill in the first place. Due to the mechanics of the exp pot system, there is nothing a human can do to possibly outperform a script, and there is really nothing a script can do wrong that would discourage its use at high level.

Since the static timer requires everyone to always wait until ~1 second before throwing, really only 4 things can happen:
1. You wait too long and it explodes on you.
2. They get over 12 tiles away during the 1 second throwing delay (the traveling animation) and it explodes on you.
3. You throw the exp pot and it explodes ontop of them.
4. You throw the pot too early and it explodes behind them.

Scripts virtually eliminate #4 and #1 from happening, discounting errors caused by ping flux. All that really leaves is #2, and that can happen equally with both scripters and legit players.

So really, as long as you can make a half-decent script, there is no reason not to use one for explosion pots, and i think that is a major issue.

 

[Drake Roberts]

Here's an idea remove the command line for using stealing on UOS....

Boom.

That would be a bad ass step in the right direction imo.

Like I said though.. If you can make a 67 line script that automatically snoops, and then searches immediately and steals anything it finds that matches your preset item types that you want to go after (be it power scrolls, garlic, bandages, whatever the fuck you want to go after), and if not, proceeds to snoop any pouch in the persons pack and continues looking for anything on the preset item type to automatically steal, all within literally a seconds time... then you can probably do a lot more than just steal with this easy uo jr shit.

 

[Selenus]

I'm all for the third party programs not being useable. Nothing was on the sphere freeshard I played 12 years ago. No uo assist, no razor, nothing.

That's when you sort out real player skill from people who are dependant on scripts to perform.

 

[halygon]

Here's an idea remove the command line for using stealing on UOS....

Boom.

Actually here's a better idea - lock up your shit so it doesn't get stolen. If you have to make a server side change -- fix tinker trapped boxes.

Removing UOSteam and/or Razor will only do two things: 1) Run off people from the shard and 2) punish the 90% of non-pvpers who use these programs to better their UOF experience through interface enhancements to an old ass game.

 

[wetbreasts]

I think UOSteam's scripting abilities should be hindered for sure. UO An Corp worked with the UOsteam devs to allow for negotiated features, so maybe some of that can be blocked.