Contructive feedback regarding 10% skill loss on pets upon death.

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Gerosin

Adept
First of all I would like to say that I'm all about nerfs ingame as much as I'm about buffs/fixes and so forth, but let's closely examine this recent nerf and how it will affect this community in the long run.

Previously, as in over a year and ½ the current system stated that pets lose 0.1 of their skill upon death. So, as you can all see this has existed on the server for far too long and people have chosen and invested significant amount of time, effort and gold to invest in this profession. I know for a fact I've spent months to get to legendary and around 10 million gold to improve my profession to legendary (included some skill scrolls used as well as pets purchases).

When compared with the rest of the other profession there is no doubt that tamer is the most expensive profession by far and if anything those who've chosen this long and harsh path should be somehow REWARDED for their effort. Anyways, back to topic. As I mentioned I'm all for nerfs as much as I'm for buffs ingame, but for well over a decade of gaming I don't recall when such game changing nerf has been introduced in a game. Usually, nerfs come as tweaks and mainly is this due to the fact how communities react toward nerfs within a game. It's why experienced companies like Blizzard have rather chosen to buff other weaker professions, over severely nerfing a current one, which we too have seen in UOforever, mainly how dexxers have received slayer armor, slayer crafter weapons and now special wood to even boost their accuracies.

Anyways, back to this nerf and why I believe it's one of the most excessive nerf I can recall seeing. The nerf did not make death of pets punishable let's say 2x, 5x or 10x more harsher, no it made pets death 100 times harsher. That's right, now pets lose full 10 points across all of their 7 (or death beetle 8) skills, some less some more, depending if or below GM. I cannot recall in my time when a nerf has made death 100 times more punishable than previously and with all of the above mentioned I believe if this indeed remains within the game it can have a harmful impact on the community as a whole.

I love Ultima Online Forever, I've been part of it for some time, I like the majority of things the staff has done toward improving the server and because I care a lot for it I had to voice my opinion upon this matter and I hope the staff here can allow a constructive feedback from their community to coexist before any changes as severe as these are intruduced to the game.

My pets for only 1-2 hours yesterday already in the 70's in some skills like resist. One death when patch was intruduced before the window came for all of us to read and another later on the night. It was saddening to see how slow it took afterwards my pets to kill a single mob :(Despite that I had to continue because for me it was either stopping to play the game overall or see how far these pets can go before they fall apart.
 
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Karl Sagan

Grandmaster
I don't see the problem, it's not a big deal if you are halfway competent and keep your pets alive.

It's not even that big of a change relative to other nerfs in the past.
 

Bunnky

Grandmaster
I agree with Karl, but I still don't see the reasoning behind it.

Any nerf has a reason behind it, and I'd love to know this one.

Edit: A simple explanation could end the future 10 pages of frustration, and inevitable locking of this post. ;)
Sent from my LGMS323 using Tapatalk
 
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C

Carl

Guest
Tamers have it easy here and don't generally even care about their pets. It's obvious when we travel around and see tamers farming and it's even more obvious during events when no one is healing their pets. (Same goes for champion spawns)

Tons of things tamers do that make it obvious that it's just too easy being a tamer. A lot of tamers will dual box and just sit their afk with all guard me while on their other toon pvping or doing whatever.

Why anyone would complain about this is beyond us. Perhaps now tamers will pay more attention to their pets. You guys have had it easy WAY to long you will actually have to start healing your pets.
 

Salsa

Grandmaster
My only worry is that it's just more a of a troll than anything.

Pets don't die when I'm alive, they die when I'm dead. It sucks watching your pets slowly die and knowing the outcome.
 
I can make about 25-30k gold per hour farming on my mage. Tamers make 100-150k per hour farming, and you have the nerve to say there is no reward to working a tamer??? GTFO.
 

Dwyane Wade

Grandmaster
At first I thought that 10% was a bit harsh. Then I remembered that pets train pretty easily so it's not a big deal. As Carl, don't let em die!
 

Bunnky

Grandmaster
What about the archer provokers that do the same with scripts?

Target closest grey, provoke onto next closest, cycle attack one, then the other.

A script could be made that allows them to fully afk provoke/shoot mobs, in such a fashion that even the health bars can be evened out, insuring no danger of having one left over to slaughter you.

I'm not disagreeing that something should be done about afk tamers, but there's other ways for tamers to bypass this change, using an almost equally as powerful pvm build on another character...

.. And they don't have to manage pets, making afking even easier. Have these afk tamers been jailed or banned for afk killing?

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Bigwyrm

Adept
So first off i would like to say we all heal our pets and totally care if they die or not..we already care about the .1 we lose whent it dies as it is.We have taken the time to find and chose our favorite stat pet..Name them then taken the time to fully train it..we love our pets :) I will always be using my mana and my vet to heal a pet at every fight i bring my pets to ... you have to or what is the point of bringing your pets they will die in one minute.Sometimes i even ask for help healing them from friends you have to keep the pets up

We dont have it easy here and to train 10% back for each death is ridiclious they dont train fast ..Dwane you go train 10% resisit and all other and see how long it would take to make your dragon viable again ..and that is from one death ..sometime your dragons will die multiple time at a champ or while trying to kill a paragon...and that is with you spaming heals on it ..common guys lets be real here .. i am not saying this for me i am saying how it really is for the guys who starting out or just made a tamer ..i dont even use my tamer anymore really i had my fun had a tamer for over a year here..i still would like to be able to use him ofcourse but this is making it not fun to take your pets out ..isint this game about fun
 

Gerosin

Adept
Carl, thx for the response on this matter...but I would like to add that I personally did care for my pets dying even when they were losing 0.1 of all their skills because I like to use my pets to their fullest potential. I was also aware some skills can take longer to train like resist. I've had instances where my pets have been up to 99.7 and below at times. Just spending some significant time to rez and fully heal my pets was something I would gladly want to avoid.

I could think of number of reasons why those who do not farm with pets or don't have/use tamers to support this nerf, but I would also want to say to all the non tamers out there to try and please feel with us in this matter for the time being. It could be your profession next time and way of earning gold that can not only hit your wallet, but as in this case Karl Sagan mentioned "if I belong in the half competent" category I should feel some relief and hope that I can still use my character...

I can just bring a number of ways I see my pets dying on a daily basis.

#1 Recalling out from a paragon, but pets don't follow due to failure to follow command or becoming aggressive toward it at 0.5 of a second as I was recalling and saying all follow.

#2 A paragon respawning on top or close to me. I know a lot of times non paragon mobs have spawned next to me where pets could not even come on time for the rescue.

#3 If I get lucky my Razor client will only freeze once a day.

#4 If I'm in a location where reds can come from another room, I highly doubt I will have enough time to recall out.

#5 If more than 1 innocent player choose to dump on me, especially if there is some loot at stake. What is 1 murder count in exchange, anyway?

#6 If I accidently go grey...Razor macros ignore the criminal query as you know and many times some loot from lesser mobs that die to me I miss the criminal loot notification as well as believing I can loot it since I've done some dmg or provoked the mob.

#7 If a thief happened to be around stealing some of my regs/aids to self heal or pets or recall out.

#8 If someone places some trapped item in the corpse as it falls.

#9 If I get stuck between my pets and a mob.

I'll let the rest of their community to put their #10 on how they see themself experience death on daily basis...but one thing is certain, in locations where tamers can't even recall out with a lot of players and mobs with bosses like champ spawns, tamers will be a rare sight indeed.

Death should be punishable, but not to the extent that would force a player to abandon the game due to being unable to use his character. If this existed prior to me starting the game I can tell you right now I would not invest months to get to 105+ in taming as well as spend around 10 mil gold for ps, ss and pets. We still already are punished like everyone else with losing all of our items upon death, including valuable items and gold.

If one, with my tamer at least I had a choice to fight off some aggresors, which was fun at times...something different than farm the same mobs over and over. Now even that is gone for us :(
 
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ale1981

Master
I agree, 0.1 might be a little low but 10% is way too high, pets die from many reasons. Taming might be easy once you have reached GM however it is definitely not easy to reach that level.
 

Bobby123

Grandmaster
What about a compromise and meet in the middle? 1% seems to be the perfect number.


As a vet player for years , i understand where are the developers coming from but i feel that 10% skills loss is being a little too harsh .

The result with this implementation would be less tamers will take out their pets to pvm ! ( especially champs )

But i have to disagree with 1% being the perfect number . A figure in between what have been proposed so far would be far more acceptable .
That would balance things out .

3% would be a fair number in my opinion .
 

Bryce

Adept
Carl stated everything.

We randomly hop around, we scan the happenings and daily activity of the server.

This change is long overdue. People become complacent in their behavior.
Is it possible to DC in game? Yeah. Just like a murderer could dc and lose his character for 48 hours.
Won't take a tamer 48 hours to train back up that/those pet(s).

It's a constant that tamers disregard their pet's safety for simplicity. Be it recalling away from the sight of a PK, to "all kill tank and spank" sending it in to a swarm of mobs while everyone gets their provo's off and melee trains going hard. With 3 accounts now, this has and would only rise. Send them in and amass as many points on other characters as you can.

Risk. There will be a risk to managing your pets. Worried about a paragon spawning and taking it out if you dc? Work in groups. Just like with pk's. Many opt to farm alone for full loot. The drawback being that they will get zerged down. Risk.

The game being more difficult is a good thing. Are we cranking up damage done to followers? No.

Tamers have had it easy for a long time. Too long. Sure, it's a hard and long skill to work. But that doesn't means it should be a light at the end of the tunnel. Not a concrete wall.

The same issue arose when Barracoon was fixed. Many thought it was an "over buff". But he's legitimately functioning as per its original written code. People were just so used to the laid back ease, it came as a huge culture shock.

Take care of your pets. Take care of your friends pets. Work together, not against them. :)
 

Thryn

Adept
How about making the All Follow Me command work when a player is a ghost, then? That'll allow Tamers to get their pets out of certain death situations when a mob accidentally murders the tamer. Instead of standing there for 5 minutes waiting for the inevitable death of the pets - of which nothing can be done about it - allow the tamer to at least have a chance to walk their pets out of that situation.

**Edit** Also, I love the staff response to this situation. Can we please get clarification to the question on the Three Accounts thread from one of you?? :)
 

Bobby123

Grandmaster
Hi Bryce ,

I know where you are coming from and i agree tamers have it easy for a long time .

Experienced players probably MIGHT not have much of a problem with the 10% skill loss.

But i am speaking on behalf of the general community , less experienced tamers or Noobs ( sorry for the term) would have a big problem with 10% skill loss on their pets.

This will result in less tamers willing to bring their pets out to PvM .

Less PvM isnt good as PvM is the backbone of almost everything in an online game !

My suggestion is Tweak a llittle if its possible !

@@
 
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