Another Stat loss proposal

Sapperman

Sapperman

Grandmaster
So I was thinking about the whole stat loss debate and I came up with an idea. Pking should be an "endgame" activity. No player should be able to macro for 5 hours and become a top pk.

1) Remove stat loss as seen today completely.

2) Implement an instant gold deduction from the bank of a red whose head is turned in. This gold disappears from the economy completely.

3) If a red fails to have enough in his/her bank box the red sits in 75% stat loss until he/she pays their debts.

4) Remove all reds from factions

5) Grant all reds a one time option to repent and remove their murder counts completely.

6) Remove reds ability to access towns- since when do we allow murders to walk among us.

7) Re implement ST/LT counts. LT meaning how long you stay red. ST would indicate the price you pay per death. 1 ST =25k, 2 ST=50k, 3 ST=75k, 4 ST=100k - max payments at 100k. So if you PK a lot your risk is higher.

8) Once you die and you head is turned in, your ST reset. This will prevent abuse from rez killing.

9) Finally, to provide balance, provide titles/hues for Pk's who can maintain high ST counts. For example; 10 ST- Murderer 20 ST- Serial Killer 30 ST- Mass Murderer etc etc. But the ST level must be maintained for the title to be useable. Another option would be trophies, or special currency used to buy "murderer" type decorations.

Solves numerous problems:

Gold is removed from system reducing inflation.

No stat loss occurs if the debt is paid, so if a red makes a mistake hes not out of the game for 48 hours.

Yet still deters pking enough so that it isn't a problem.

Will promote the faction/OC pvp activities since these penalties would not apply to them.

Overall, it would promote a PK system based on group pvp or skilled pvp. With planned strategy being required for successful Pking.

Currently, there is no "risk vs. reward" in the PK system. I think this might change that.

Just thoughts, flame on!
 
halygon

halygon

Grandmaster
That's a tough system for any type of pk , vet, new, whatever.

PKing does not need to be end game activity because well, this is UO. Thieves and murderers are common place, not extra special.
 
K A Z

K A Z

Grandmaster
my idea for statloss was something like you're allowed to buy yourself out of statloss right when youre about to get insta statted (for 30k) and after youve been 4 days in statloss (so that the 4 day cap is only the cap when youre actually gonna spend some gp). If people dont pay up statloss cud be up to a week long..
 
B

besttherewas

Grandmaster
Sapperman said:
So I was thinking about the whole stat loss debate and I came up with an idea. Pking should be an "endgame" activity. No player should be able to macro for 5 hours and become a top pk.

1) Remove stat loss as seen today completely.

2) Implement an instant gold deduction from the bank of a red whose head is turned in. This gold disappears from the economy completely.

3) If a red fails to have enough in his/her bank box the red sits in 75% stat loss until he/she pays their debts.

4) Remove all reds from factions

5) Grant all reds a one time option to repent and remove their murder counts completely.

6) Remove reds ability to access towns- since when do we allow murders to walk among us.

7) Re implement ST/LT counts. LT meaning how long you stay red. ST would indicate the price you pay per death. 1 ST =25k, 2 ST=50k, 3 ST=75k, 4 ST=100k - max payments at 100k. So if you PK a lot your risk is higher.

8) Once you die and you head is turned in, your ST reset. This will prevent abuse from rez killing.

9) Finally, to provide balance, provide titles/hues for Pk's who can maintain high ST counts. For example; 10 ST- Murderer 20 ST- Serial Killer 30 ST- Mass Murderer etc etc. But the ST level must be maintained for the title to be useable. Another option would be trophies, or special currency used to buy "murderer" type decorations.

Solves numerous problems:

Gold is removed from system reducing inflation.

No stat loss occurs if the debt is paid, so if a red makes a mistake hes not out of the game for 48 hours.

Yet still deters pking enough so that it isn't a problem.

Will promote the faction/OC pvp activities since these penalties would not apply to them.

Overall, it would promote a PK system based on group pvp or skilled pvp. With planned strategy being required for successful Pking.

Currently, there is no "risk vs. reward" in the PK system. I think this might change that.

Just thoughts, flame on!
Click to expand...

Re-re-********!
 
Sapperman

Sapperman

Grandmaster
Hehe I knew it wouldn't be popular. Which is why I decided to post it. And obviously values could be modified.

@girana the numbers Shane posted of gold removal from the system (can't quote them) is not deflation. Deflation would be a rapid value of gold increase. In the case of this shard and the fact that it is difficult to acquire new players, deflating the economy would be a good thing. A new player could go out farm and actually purchase something. Currently you have the established base of players passing gold to one another.

@halygon I agree it would be a stiff system, but would actually benefit red/blue pvp as well. Attacking a character engaged in combat with a NPC is not pvp its an ambush lol, and yes thats part of UO. But with stiffer penalties upon death this would force red/blue pvp into designated PVP zones like bucs, wind, orc fort etc. In those areas where corpses are uncuttable no penalty would apply at all.

Now lets think about the risk vs. reward scenario here since it is the hallmark UO argument. A PK who spends very little time creating a char runs into a dungeon, say a champ spawn, kills a blue takes a powerscroll, valued from 20k-6mil with his risk being (currently) max 48 hours stat loss or 25k to buy back head. So naturally, the possible reward WAY outweighs the possible risk. However, if the previously proposed penalties were implemented the PK would be forced to acquire a strategy due to increased risk on the PK side. The blue still incurs the same risk. The same can be said for any spawn, given possible rares (statues, dropped, paragon chests etc.) still hold more value than a 48 hour stat.

Finally, it would promote the use of actually giving reds counts, I know for myself and most people dont count reds, whats the point in counting them, in fact when I play my red I just wanna rack up counts. This system would provide incentive to give counts as designed.

Mind you, if the PK has 0 ST counts, no stat loss would be imposed and no gold penalty would be imposed. You could always burn ST counts AFK or even allow for ST counts to decay while logged off.
 
B

besttherewas

Grandmaster
Sapperman said:
Hehe I knew it wouldn't be popular. Which is why I decided to post it. And obviously values could be modified.

@girana the numbers Shane posted of gold removal from the system (can't quote them) is not deflation. Deflation would be a rapid value of gold increase. In the case of this shard and the fact that it is difficult to acquire new players, deflating the economy would be a good thing. A new player could go out farm and actually purchase something. Currently you have the established base of players passing gold to one another.

@halygon I agree it would be a stiff system, but would actually benefit red/blue pvp as well. Attacking a character engaged in combat with a NPC is not pvp its an ambush lol, and yes thats part of UO. But with stiffer penalties upon death this would force red/blue pvp into designated PVP zones like bucs, wind, orc fort etc. In those areas where corpses are uncuttable no penalty would apply at all.

Now lets think about the risk vs. reward scenario here since it is the hallmark UO argument. A PK who spends very little time creating a char runs into a dungeon, say a champ spawn, kills a blue takes a powerscroll, valued from 20k-6mil with his risk being (currently) max 48 hours stat loss or 25k to buy back head. So naturally, the possible reward WAY outweighs the possible risk. However, if the previously proposed penalties were implemented the PK would be forced to acquire a strategy due to increased risk on the PK side. The blue still incurs the same risk. The same can be said for any spawn, given possible rares (statues, dropped, paragon chests etc.) still hold more value than a 48 hour stat.

Finally, it would promote the use of actually giving reds counts, I know for myself and most people dont count reds, whats the point in counting them, in fact when I play my red I just wanna rack up counts. This system would provide incentive to give counts as designed.

Mind you, if the PK has 0 ST counts, no stat loss would be imposed and no gold penalty would be imposed. You could always burn ST counts AFK or even allow for ST counts to decay while logged off.
Click to expand...

What a bunch of nonsense.

Private, next time ask your co for permission before speaking freely.
 
Sapperman

Sapperman

Grandmaster
Yeah I think stat loss sucks but it is a necessary evil otherwise you got every newb running around pking with no balance, which forces newer players out of the game. My intent with this suggestion was to stimulate ideas on how to turn what pvp is now, IE red/blue, into a more organized system. Factions aren't utilized, O/C is a joke. I see some improvements being made but I dont foresee them working as intended.
 
A

agauo

Master
Sapperman said:
Yeah I think stat loss sucks but it is a necessary evil otherwise you got every newb running around pking with no balance, which forces newer players out of the game. My intent with this suggestion was to stimulate ideas on how to turn what pvp is now, IE red/blue, into a more organized system. Factions aren't utilized, O/C is a joke. I see some improvements being made but I dont foresee them working as intended.
Click to expand...

More pvp is a bad thing? If more pvp makes people quit then maybe UO isn't the game for them..
 
CVegas

CVegas

Grandmaster
Lets just let it lie. I don't know if you saw how stressed our devs got when they poured their heart in to the new changes. They'll listen, but lets not over do it. Most wouldn't give 2 shits but they try to accommodate everyone. :)
 
D

Don Key

Master
Sapperman said:
Yeah I think stat loss sucks but it is a necessary evil otherwise you got every newb running around pking with no balance, which forces newer players out of the game. My intent with this suggestion was to stimulate ideas on how to turn what pvp is now, IE red/blue, into a more organized system. Factions aren't utilized, O/C is a joke. I see some improvements being made but I dont foresee them working as intended.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing.

Stat loss doesn't actually deter people from PK'ing, especially when you get access to 3 or more characters over up to 3 accounts. What stat loss does, is it ensures that the PK's will make sure the odds are in their favor when they are PK'ing. I think I have only seen a few PK's out running around solo over the past 3 months. I can name them all.

PK's are healthy for a shard.

What isn't healthy, is when the PKs don't want to fight eachother because of stat loss.

What isn't healthy, is when PKs are in stat loss, and they turn ot noto-PKing on their blues or simply just taking counts if they can afford them.

This is the worst and is really bad for a server when the innocent players can't even trust their own. This trust is needed so that innocents can group together and fight the pks. The changes to the brit bridge are a good step in the right direction and should get the innocents fighting together for a cause.

So to achieve that balance I suggest adding incentive to fighting the pks because player justice is the only true punishment for PKs.


Here are my ideas @Shane @Adam @Carl

1) Go back to the short/long term murder count system. 3 shorts = red. 8 hours to decay per short, 40 hours per long count. Decay timer resets when you get a new count.
2) Remove stat loss.
3) Add a valor system that is similar to how faction points work. Players get a point for being involved in a fight against a murderer and they can use those points for special things similar to what you spend faction points on. Yes, all the way up to a temporary bless.
4) Remove recall for reds.
5) Profit.

This will allow reds the freedom to pvp against stacked odds in their victim's favor while giving players incentive to fight off the murderers.

This will allow reds to fight eachother without the fear of giving themselves stat loss.

This will give a good incentive for innocent players to seek out and fight the murderers.

This will not change the fact that murderers will run around in large groups because some groups just want to win at any cost. But this will ensure that if a band of murderers goes into a dungeon to PK people that anti-pks would be able to find them before they could just recall away.
 
A

agauo

Master
Don Key said:
I think I have only seen a few PK's out running around solo over the past 3 months. I can name them all.
Click to expand...

red solo pk here. rxtswagawstxr no playing for another few days because insta statted after fighting 4-5+ people. take my name off the list
 
A

agauo

Master
I would like to think it hurts the shard more than anything taking reds out of the game for a few days every time they die, but sadly with this shard I really don't think that is the case. Honestly I believe much more than half the population here could do without any pvp whatsoever. They would be perfectly happy PVMing their hearts out and farming up for that new shiny metallic dress or dragon nest egg to train their third ultramega meta elite dragon. 90% of the shard actually has a macro bound to recall away as soon as they see an enemy on the screen. When they do see that solo red they have all their tamer friends recall in with 2 dragons and insta stat as soon as he dies. A lot of people talk about risk vs reward, but currently it is in my opinion way too easy for people (tamers especially) to make money here. There is little-no risk to farming inside dungeons because of their being so few PK's. Maybe I am not in the right places at the right time, but I hardly ever see groups of reds.

Personally anytime my red dies I will spend the time waiting at brit bank as a ghost as a reminder to people that I would instead like to be out pvping and giving the shard some action. I don't have the money to throw 30k or whatever each time I die to a group of 5 blues and 4 dragons as a solo red. I guess if I had millions of gold I would just pay it and be done, but until then I'll just afk off my time at brit bank. I encourage other reds to do the same. Show the shard how many active people would be out pvping instead of in stat loss.
 
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